The Fear of Abortion — Wiping Out Freedoms
I was reading the Austin Chronicle the other day when I came across an article about abortion. Every time I hear about the pro-life abortion naysayers, it makes me want to vomit. Who the hell do these people think they are? I could care less what their ideology says is right or wrong, as I should be free from their irresponsible, irrational tyranny.
But, alas, I am not. I have to put up with their ranting behavior, and their judgmental, condemning attacks. Even though our “great” nation was wisely built upon the foundation of the separation of church and State, I have to watch the neo-radical conservatives destroy the very fabric of our nation’s original intention. Do we hold any respect for our forefathers and their judicious intentions? Are we to throw away what they spent decades building?
Let me explain something to the people out there who want to strip a woman of her rights. When the government established its separation from religion, it was so we could live in a free society. What this means is freedom from religious persecution, freedom to have whatever religion one wants, or freedom from religion and its influences. Constitutionally speaking, Atheists should have just as many rights as the Christians and be free from judgment and persecution.
But, for some reason, these pro-life radical Christians don’t want it that way. They want everyone to believe just like them. They want to create a “religious communism” so that we are all governed by the bible. But why stop at abortions, how about closing down strip clubs, make porn illegal, make premarital sex illegal, ban alcohol again, make being rich a federal felony, make all movies G rated and anything else illegal, make skipping church a crime, burn all witches at the stake, crucify all mentally ill people because the devil is in them, only sell Christian music, place a law against dancing… What else? Where do you draw the line?
If you let religion create one law, then what is going to stop them from creating another… and another…? What if it were different? What if it was a Muslim sect that was trying to create a federal law that removes the right for woman to drive cars. Trying to talk sense into them would be pointless, and they would be able to give you all the reasons why it is needed. They would tell you that the world would be better if it was done. Even though their reasons are irrational, you could not change their mind.
Well, there is no difference from the hypothetical above and pro-lifers. Their rationale is, in fact, 
irrational, not logic based. What happens once you let the Christians govern laws, then what stops Jews, Muslims, Mormons and the wonderful Scientologists from following suit. Then all the different religions could fight over who gets precedence over each other’s laws if they conflict. A wonderful consequence to all this would be a Holy War. That sounds great! Let’s just make America the Middle East.
Anyone know why the Middle East is overwhelmed by strife and suffering? Religion in government. Yes, it’s that simple! And, no, the Christian religion is not immune to these consequences either. Does anyone remember the Crusades or Salem Witch Trials? I don’t need to show any more proof. There is enough out there. So, where does this lead us — what are we to do?
My humble opinion is, that we need to make sure our politics stay black and white. We either let religion in or out. That’s it — no more, no less. Because, where would you draw the line? What would be permitted and what would not? And, what about the original intentions of this country and our constitution? Should we just throw holy water on the Constitution to erase the ink in the parts we disagree with? Does that excuse the mutilation, the destruction of the fabric of our society? As long as it is in the name of the Christian God, the 33% of the world’s God. And F*#K! everybody else? Does that sound American to you? No, it is not American!
America was founded on the principles of brave and gallant people who were escaping the very religious persecution that some people today want to revive by extinguishing a woman’s right to “choice” just because it doesn’t agree with their religion. Let’s remember why this country was founded in the first place. And not continue to pursue tactics that take us back to where we came from — back to the dark history in time when people did not have the freedom to believe the way they wanted. Let’s not go back to that. Stop the insanity!
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New Scientist
The Onion
Media Matters
Newsvine
Associated Press
World estimations of the number of terminations carried out each year is somewhere between 20 and 88 million.(likely 55 to 60)
Over 3,500 per day / Over 1.3 million per year in America alone.
50% of that 1.3 million claimed failed birth control was to blame.
A further 48% had failed to use any birth control at all.
And 2% had medical reasons.
That means a staggering 98% of unwanted pregnancies may have been avoided had an effective birth control been used.
I am a 98% pro-lifer, 2% Pro-choicer, who has no religious convictions at all . I didn’t need the fear of god or anything else to come to my decision, just a good sense of what is right and wrong.
You see we were all once a fetus. Is it beyond the realm of possibilities that when your mother first learned she was carrying you, she may have considered her options? What if she had decided to terminate? Would that have been OK?
You would not exist, if you have children they would not exist, and your (husband or wife) would be married to someone else. You would have been deprived of all your experiences and memories. In this day and age with terminations being so readily available and so many being carried out, if you make it to full term you can consider yourself lucky.
Lucky you had a mother that made the choice of life for you.
Don’t you think they all deserve the same basic human right, LIFE?
At the point of conception is when life began for you. This was the start of your existence. Your own personal big bang. Three weeks after conception heart started to beat. First brain waves recorded at six weeks after conception. Seen sucking thumb at seven weeks after conception.
Though it pains me to say it , there may always be a need for the 2% medical reasons and such, but that’s all.
So how do we get the other 98% to be responsible……………….
How do we get them to be honest with themselves, about when life begins.
egg sperm = human being
Sadly many prefer an occasional abortion, over using birth control, they have all kinds of reasons, each of them selfish.
Then there’s the christian impossition,and their men in high places.(all a bit talibanish, church and state should never entwine) their stance against birth control has only added to the numbers.
People should be able to choose to use birth control, to avoid having to make another choice.
I’d like to see effective birth control made available to all who can’t afford it.
Sanity must provale, abortions should remain available and safe to the 2% and such, and the rest need to have a good look at themselves and get their act together.
I’d also like to see a 4D ultrasound in every clinic to provide a more informed choice,
before going through with something they may regret.
If you think the point of conception is NOT when life begins, and all you have is a clump of cells and not a living human being.
Then at least concider this -
Soon after you were conceived you were no more than a clump of cells.
This clump of cells was you at your earliest stage, you had plenty of growing to do but this clump of cells was you none the less.
Think about it.
Aren’t you glad you were left unhindered…. to develope further.
Safe inside your mother’s womb until you were born.
Want to know how to find humanity-?
True humanity can only be achieved, by concidering others/ caring about others, as much as, if not more than yourself.
Until we do we are no more than an uncivilisation,
with all the uncivilised things that we do…
Wow, what a comment! Well, you had a lot to say, and I am very pleased you said it without being hypocritical or judgmental. I thank you for that.
Now, to your comment. Your make good points, and I wish you to continue to believe in your ideology of abortions. But, I still stand behind giving people the choice. Why in the world is it so important that the country’s laws agrees with you?
And no disrespect, but believe me, you are pro-life because of religion or some kind of ideology. What if my ideology says it’s okay because if we die, we just come back some other time? No big deal, and no consequences? But, I guess that makes me evil, huh?
There in lies the problem, conflicting ideologies. My beliefs follow the understanding that we do not get only one chance in the world. And I do not believe that if we are aborted, we go to hell of heaven or whatever. We get as many chances as we want, and there is no God judging our actions or denying us entrance to heaven. So, why do you want to force me into your ideology?
We don’t agree on this issue, and its consequences. So, who is truly right, and who is truly wrong? Well, neither. Since you cannot prove that these undifferentiated cells never get another chance at life, and I cannot prove my statement above, we need to just agree to disagree. I say we don’t force anyone’s ideology by law, and just let them decide on their own. If there is some consequence for the abortions, let nature carry out those consequences, but it is not up to you.
Your point on if my mother had an abortion with me, so what? If I was never alive, I would not worry about not being alive. Quite a paradox actually. And, if my so-called soul wanted to be given a body for it to have LIFE, it would just wait for the next fetus to inhabit. See how my ideology gives me comfort, instead of instilling fear.
Since you are against abortions, how about I take you to where my wife works. She takes care of small children where many were not wanted but were kept. You would see how they are not fed, not bathed, not educated, not cared for, not loved, some are even hated and called stupid and worthless, some end up dying from neglect or being beaten for years. But, I guess this is the less glamorous side of the pro-life coin, so no one wants to talk about it.
How does that sound to you? You would rather their death be carried out over a decade of suffering and illness and neglect, or being aborted before they even have nerves or emotions to feel the pain of starvation, a fist across a face, a belt over their back, sickness, hate, and regret from keeping a baby because you wanted them to? Do you want to be the reason a child to suffers for 10 years then dies from neglect. Do you want that on your conscience?
I am sorry but I see the abortion choice as the better one. Most people don’t see what happens after the unwanted babies are born. I have, and you don’t want to see what I have seen. This kind of suffering is much, much worse.
Bottom line, it is not your belief that I have a problem with, it is your belief that I should be forced to believe what you believe. That is what upsets me.
Anyways, thanks for you time and interaction with this site.
So were finally going to tackle the Big A.
This is one of few hot topics where I don’t hold particularly strong views. Not because the issue doesn’t matter but because I think both sides have valid point. I agree with Justin because we live in a free society and pregnancy should be a choice, and for his emotional point about what can happen to unwanted children. But the other side has some points too. I wish abortions were only needed for medical reasons because everyone had excellent birth control. To be honest I would be perfectly OK with limits on abortion, but I see a slippery slope on that and I simply cannot ally with people who will kill doctors to save a few cells. In a rare instance of disagreement I will say that I disagree with Justin’s conclusion that the only way you can be anti-abortion is for religious reasons. I think its true of the vast majority, but I think it would be possible to be against it based solely on the numbers. I was about to make a coment about how your turning this into an emotional issue, which is what you accused me of on immigration, but you know what this is an emotional issue. I think that abortion needs to be kept legal, and if the other side wants to hang on to there crediblity then when they put that pro-life label on themselves they need to mean it. Pro-life means anti-abortion, which means you MUST encourage birth control, you need to work on ways to deal with placing these children into loving homes, BTW finding parents to adopt a crack-baby is not easy. Pro-life is a tough label to use because it means that you are against any senseless killing, such as war. Pro-life Should mean all these things because when someone claims to be pro-life and pro-war then I don’t listen to them for a moment, they have no credibility, they clearly don’t really care about life, they care about an agenda.
Its hard to tell from a single comment but I get the impression that ausblog really does care, the giveaway being that the want the unwanted child to be prevented not by abortion but by birth control. Its the anti-abortion anti-BC people that scare me, and because of this second group I remain staunchly pro-choice even though I do have some issue with abortion.
I hope this made sense.
One of my favorite meaningless arguments for not allowing abortions is the one about how you wouldn’t exist, and neither would your children, if your mother had aborted you. Oh horrors! The fact is that you wouldn’t know about it and neither would your hypothetical children. The argument plays to our fear of non-existence, which, like it or not, is where we all started, and where some people should have stayed.
Damn, I like that response Catana! Where did you come from?
And your right, these ridiculous, irrational fear responses are overplayed. I hate anything that uses fear as motivation.
Kilgore, ah, you called me out! Just kidding! Although I did have an emotional response (I will admit it) to this issue, I truly believe my perspective still follows a logical and rational progression.
There is absolutely now way, we can get everyone to follow the highest standards of birth control. It will be an impossible task. Getting everyone to say YES to birth control is like trying to get everyone to say NO to drugs. Not going to happen.
Unfortunately, the ones that I believe need abortion available the most, are the ones that are the poor, indigent and uneducated. This is the same demographic that addiction and abuse falls into the most. If we want to be humane to life, I believe we need to allow these people the option of abortion, so my above scenario does not increase in popularity.
Cerebral…I’ll try not to take up too much of your time.
You are right on many points, I do have an ideology that I live by and as I’m sure do you.
We can but agree to disagree,and discuss what we agree on.
One thing we agree on is birth control if only more people were responsible enough to use birth control,an effective birth control.
I know their are other factors that contribute to the 1.3 mill,like the gov attitude to b/c and the radical christians (who’s real aim is to assimilate)
Maybe now with the Dems new found powers some sanity might return to that area.
Make it available, affordable and spend megabucks on education and tele adds and the like.
Get people to understand that their is another choice available, the choice of not getting pregnant in the first place.
Prevention is always better than the cure.
Sadly many feel it is more convenient to have an abortion occasionally than to use a birth control.
Or simply don’t try hard enough to to prevent pregnancies.
To me it might be a perfect sollution to restrict them to the 2% (to save a womans life,or in the cases of rape or incest), although I do have serious reservations in the case of rape.
Then the other 98% would have to pick that other option, (use birth control).
Now having said that I also agree with what you said about unwanted,unloved,poorly cared for kids.
But if unwanted pregnancies were prevented they wouldn’t exist.
Also not all (if half) of the unwanted pregnancies would have been born into those conditions, for many woman it is simply a choice made out of convenience.
DID YOU KNOW THAT YOU CAN GET AN IMPLANT (in arm)
THAT IS SAFE, 99.9% EFFECTIVE AND LASTS FOR THREE YEARS?
Implanon is new to the US but has been widely used in Aus for about five years.The only bad report iv’e heard is if your a smoker you can’t use them due to increased risk of cardiovascular conditions.
Good incentive to give the cigs a miss…………
any way my daughter has one, and no problems and no pills to remember and no unwanted prenancies for three years.
I am appalled at the numbers of terminations being carried out world wide.
What about Russia…….
To Russia with love:
(part of a post from Mosnews.com)
Two million abortions are performed in Russia every year, with only 1.5 million children actually being born.
The quality of abortions performed is often very low and the women’s health is often at risk.
Moreover, badly performed surgeries kill every third patient and leave many infertile for the rest of their lives.
More than 650,000 women die trying to abort each year.
Russia is the only nation in the world where abortions consistently outnumbered live births by a ratio of about 2 to 1.
In 1970, for example, there were 1.9 million births and 4.8 million abortions.
Today, with more access to real contraceptives, that number has decreased:
For every live birth there are between 1.3 and 1.5 abortions, depending on the statistics you look at.
That would mean that around 1.6 million woman died trying to abort in 1970 alone.
In addition thanks to abortion there are more than 6.5 million infertile women in Russia today.
Are you appalled ?
Any way,I’m going to have to leave it there but I have something else for you to concider……..
The Unborn Victims of Violence Act is a United States law which defines violent assault committed against pregnant women as being a crime against two persons: the woman and the fetus she carries.
This law was passed in 2004 after the murder of the then pregnant Laci Peterson and her fetus, Connor Peterson.
If it is right for a man (or woman) to be charged for homicide and sentenced to prison (or worse) for killing the unborn (and rightfully so)
Is a fetus earmarked for abortion of any less value to a fetus killed by violence…?
I think it’s not ethical to protect one without the other…..
There are many similar state laws dating back to the early seventies.
In 34 states many people have been charged and sentenced over the last 35 years.
Some states carry an option for capital punishment.
Sorry I didn’t keep it brief,
Take care……..
“What if my ideology says it’s okay because if we die, we just come back some other time? No big deal, and no consequences? But, I guess that makes me evil, huh?”
When we, as a society, affirm that position, we will not need a law against murder. As it is, we have argued away many of the hindrances to suicide, and you could easily go ahead and snuff yourself if you expect to come back in another, possibly, more convenient environment. However, it has been made clear that a fetus will endeavor to avoid it’s own murder with as much energy as adults who maintain good mental health. In other words, the fetus would be as interested in survival as you are interested in resisting the downtrodding effects of the pro-life movement.
Go figger.
Catana,……..The facts are you were conceived, you were carried to term,and you were born.
Now, looking back over your life so far, aren’t you glad of that ?
Have you no compasion for the ones denied that privilage ?
Amazed as usual, you have managed to take on one of if not the most controversial subjects in America today, without anyone getting angry. What a site. It seems as if we all want the same thing, birth control education and availability so that we won’t need abortions. Thats the goal. Which also might explain the civility here, no one came in with the fundamentalist view of all abortions should be illegal and ban birth control, abstinence is the only thing that should be taught, that view is hard to have a rational conversation with. My hope is that BC becomes widely used enough that abortion isn’t even an issue, it would still be legal for the health, rape, and incest and for those cases where the BC failed. It would still be legal overall, it just wouldn’t matter because it would hardly ever be used.
ausblog, you seem quite interested in the outright banning of abortions which as I have said, I can understand, but there was one comment you made,
“To me it might be a perfect solution to restrict them to the 2% (to save a womans life,or in the cases of rape or incest), although I do have serious reservations in the case of rape.”
Your not sure if a rape victim should be allowed to decide if they want to have a constant reminder of the worst day of their lives or not? Thats harsh. With the exception of the noted part I can understand where your coming from and I can agree with the goal of effective birth control, I just disagree that outlawing abortion helps, if abortion was illegal we would have problems here like you mentioned in Russia because people would be having abortions performed in illegal manners.
Oh and what are peoples views about the morning after pill? Justin I can guess your, but Ausblog, do you consider Plan B an effective safeguard to prevent an abortion for those times when the BC failed, or as simply another form of abortion that also needs to be outlawed? just curious.
Have a good one.
K.T………..I have no problem with plan B morning after pill, providing they are just that,(the morning after pill)or at least the morning after the morning after.
My concern is I expect many will use them much later than that. By lieing about it being for the night before. Then your looking at another form of abortion a silent abortion because there will be no statistics to show how many lied. Also it could be very dangerous. (speak up if you have a solution)
With each new generation, comes the realisations of some of the mistakes of the former.
Something to do with evolution I suspect.
Many practices of the past are no longer practiced.
Abortion should soon join the practices of old.
K.T…………RE: Rape….Have you ever spoken to a person who was conceived through rape and asked their view ?
Cerebral,…….Tell me I hav’nt pissed you off.
No, I am not pissed off, well at least not at any of you. I have been replacing my brake pads and fixing a stupid flat tire all day today. That is why I have not taken the time to type out a well thought out comment. Sorry for the delay. I will write out something later tonight or tomorrow. I have much to say, but I need to get my car rolling again, soon. Thanks for the concern though, I really appreciate your kind thoughts.
Hey Bryan Runnels,
As for your comment, you are correct. Any living organism will fight to stay alive. That is just the evolutionary survival innateness in all living things including bacteria. But, organisms, like the human, fight against many things to survive, like smoking, consumption of alcohol, prescription drugs, even staying lean and athletic. But, does that mean we should make smoking illegal, alcohol illegal, trying to get leaner then 20% body fat illegal?
And, I will say it again. I am not against being pro-life. I am ONLY against pro-life having a part in our politics and law making.
[Sorry in advance for the length of this comment, I am just trying to cover as much as possible]
Birth control and sex ed.
Kilgore and Ausblog, I think you guys are great for wanting to improve sex education and trying to encourage people to take more accountability with their actions and being more responsible.
I think you are absolutely correct. The more people are educated and given real world experiences that will make people think twice about sex without protection is a very needed thing in today’s society.
Will it erase the 98% unnecessary?
But, and a big but, I am having a hard time believing Ausblog in thinking even with the above statement fully applied you are going to get rid of all unnecessary abortions. We have tried that with drugs, alcohol, smoking, hell even just eating right, and we are still fat, high, drunk and coughing up smoke.
Medical Necessity
My next issue is what do you consider medical necessity? Here we go again. Where do we draw the line? Does the medical issue have to be mortal? What if it just leaves the mother brain dead? Brain dead is not a mortal condition so…?
And as far as the rape thing? I respect you and all, but damn! That was harsh? Have you ever talked to a rape victim? Have YOU ever been raped? One time I was watching a show on a girl that was produced by a Crack Addict being raped. She went through all kinds of developmental problems, premature birthing, multiple surgeries and went through many, many foster homes growing up being abused mentally and physically. No one wanted her, and she ended up attempting suicide two or three times. Her life was a living hell.
Is this kind of suffering something that you know intimately? If not, then I believe we have no right at all to say what should be done in that situation. And, in my opinion, we shouldn’t have a say in anyones life regardless of how we perceive it.
I value life just as much as the next person, but the way I value life is by letting it exist without judgment. I think true love is unconditional, and this means to let people go about this world and live it in the way they deem necessary.
Best Friend’s Mother
I know of an extremely educated, caring, responsible older woman that had an abortion once a long time ago. She was dead broke, had a boyfriend and was trying to finish school, so that she could make something of her life. She ended up getting pregnant on accident because of failed birth control. Well, at the time she did not realize the birth control did not work as planned and found out about a month later that she was pregnant.
Here boyfriend bailed on her, and she was left alone (no family), broke, and with nothing (no degree, paying job, and help). She decided to abort the pregnancy because if she did not, she would have to drop out of school to take care of the baby. This would mean that her and the baby’s life would have to struggle all their lives. And, if she was going to have a baby, she wanted to make sure that she would give it all the opportunity and time and love she could.
So, she did. This was the first and only time, as she thought long and hard about it. Then after she graduated and built a business, she got married. After about a couple of years she had a child, gave it all the love, education, and attention she could. This child ended up becoming a person that saves many lives as a paramedic.
Does this sound like a horrible person, one that takes advantage of the system, is irresponsible and is a murderer. Well, I can say with all my heart that she is not. Why because this woman I am talking about is my life long best friend’s mother. I have never meet a sweeter more giving person in the world.
If she was not given the opportunity to do what she did, then I would not have my best friend and many people might not have been saved and healed because of this guy.
I think if we want to get the real story on abortion, talk to someone that has had one and really listen. You may end up realizing that all of life is not black and white, and maybe we need to let people govern some parts of their life by themselves.
Semantics
Talking about what would be baby think, and if it’s murder, in reality, is just the usage of semantics trying to make a point. None of us will be able to truly prove or argue to the point of complete clarity. Since this subject exists in this way, we cannot make laws governing it.
It would be like making one a vegan by law since it is murder of animals and all. Well, we are omnivores, so does that mean we are given the ability not to kill animals to eat or…? Should we just kill animals since all other carnivores do? But, plants are living too. As ridiculous as this sounds, vegans really contemplate this stuff as much as we are doing with this subject. Should we allow them to make killing a chicken illegal?
Here is the moral to the story. What if by aborting one pregnancy, you ended up saving 10 lives or 100 lives? This is not implausible at all, live has a weird way of working out. You may say, by not aborting you could end up saving lives. Well, that is what makes all of this just semantics.
What is the answer?
So, let’s just concentrate on our own lives and make them as fantastic as we can. Stopping at nothing to create greatness within our own life, maybe we can lead ourselves to a greater, brighter future. By leading with a positive example we can influence more people then by forcing them into fellowship.
Well, now that I have written a novel, I will sign off. But, before I go, I want to thank all of you for sharing your ideas and being compassionate to others by not judging or condemning others in the process. [POOF] Going to bed.
Oh, and one more thing. If I did not make the last comment clear enough, here is the bottom line to this whole argument.
If we define something as legal or illegal we have to be able to define what is black and what is white. Now, what is black and what is white can be tricky. Take murder, they do not call it murder when you are protecting yourself from a criminal. Right? Well, should we say that killing, any killing, is illegal? And, if you are protecting yourself or your family from an attacker, and you killed him/her, should you be thrown in jail?
Here is the blur between right and wrong, black and white. Well, let’s make this an exception. Then we have war, we are killing Iraqi soldiers. Should our soldiers go to jail for following orders? Opps, so we need another exception. See where I am going with this? Should we have thrown the Iraqi officials in jail for killing Saddam? Is he any less worthy of Life than you or I?
You may perceive Saddam as an evil, vile man that deserved to die. Well, what if someone thinks that about you? Or, what if you think that about the man who rapped, mutilated and beat you, and now you are pregnant with his child? If we went around tabulating what is right and what is wrong we would be out there for eternity gathering the results of the survey, so that everyone declares their right and wrong. This is all a individualistic thing, and is not universal.
But, you may say that the bible will tell us what is right and wrong. Well, here we go back to the bible and religion, but I have already covered the church and State issue.
Okay, now I can go to bed. Thanks for listening.
Thanks,..been a pleasure……c u round.
well i dont realy know about all this pro-life stuff but i do know that im against abortions not because of religion although yes i am very proudly into christ but because it shoud feel so wrong commiting a murder cause thats what it is murder.
love.peace.God Bless.
its like taking an inasent childs life because you decided to have unprotected sex so for your mistake a child should die i dont think so.but you do have a good point about the seperation of the church and state.
love.peace.GodBless.
valerie
Valerie — I think it is a little more complex than just deciding to have unprotected sex. I hope one day you can realize that this issue is more dynamic and complex than “it is murder.” I would go into it all in detail, but it would just be redundant from my comments above. Thanks for your voice.
This is quite possibly the most compelling pro-choice personal story I’ve heard, from DBB.
DBB: My views on Abortion
(I hope that HTML is right)
Like the author of that story I always have a hard time really arguing strongly about this subject because I have a Y chromosome and will never be the one to make this decision, sure it’s possible that someone else and myself would work through it together but ultimately it’s not my decision. Or so I thought, now if you haven’t already go to the link above. Thank you.
Thanks for the heads up on the story. I will read it soon.